#1193  Overflowing with issues
Closed
Unknown opened 1 year ago

@robin I have noticed recently that the issues section has been overflowing with bugs and also suggestions.

It seems you are being overwhelmed by the workload of onedev, so I wanted to ask, how is the move to create a small dedicated development team for onedev going? Is it still planned?

As onedev grows, these issues are going to become more and more of an issue, and will span into the thousands if it is let get out of control...

If you are losing control of bugs, I would recommend flagging the project as "looking for contributors" to see if anyone who is interested can help you out.

Good luck! Polarian

Matthias Gramberg commented 1 year ago

I would be interested, to read about the people, the company and the financing plan for this project, personally. 😃

Unknown commented 1 year ago

@shalokshalom Well as for people, the name kind of gives it away, the only developer is Robin...

Unknown commented 1 year ago

And at the moment Onedev has no financing, it is solely funded by Robins free time and also a small amount of his profits from his job.

Matthias Gramberg commented 1 year ago

Is it really named after that? 😄

Its called OneDev, because its made by one dev? 😃

I find it particularly pretty and functional.

It's my favorite development platform. 👍

And I am wondering, that Java makes something so beautiful ^.^

Unknown commented 1 year ago

Yes it was named OneDev because it was developed by a single developer.

Robin Shen commented 1 year ago

OneDev initially means "the one development platform", but can also be interpreted as "one developer", 😉

As I mentioned earlier, I have plan to develop enterprise version of OneDev, to financially support the project in the long run. Enterprise versions will include features important to companies such as HA, load balance, monitoring and manageability etc. All existing features of OneDev OS will never be moved to enterprise version.

I am not overwhelmed at all, and hope to establish a full time team. That might be possible when I have some additional income after OneDev enterprise is released.

Unknown commented 1 year ago

Personally I am very uneasy about the idea of the enterprise edition, as I feel the open source edition would be abandoned in favour for the paid edition.

This can be seen more and more in gitlab, where the open source edition has little to no features being added, while the enterprise edition gets more and more expensive.

Robin Shen commented 1 year ago

This can be seen more and more in gitlab, where the open source edition has little to no features being added, while the enterprise edition gets more and more expensive

This is not true, GitLab OS version still gets loads of features for every release. They clearly states that major of their effort is still on OS version.

Unknown commented 1 year ago

Only the future can tell, if the OS edition is going to be so preferable, then why would anyone pay for EE. Unfortunately, the reason why companies kill their OSS edition is because of this issue, they need to make their EE more pleasing so more people are willing to pay.

Things like load balancing could be done through nginx, and other services, you see that people can find cheaper work arounds.

A lot of services are even suspending their free plans and disposing of their OSS editions because its just not profitable otherwise.

Who knows, it might work really well for onedev, like I said, only time can tell.


Robin Shen commented 1 year ago

Majority of GitLab users are using CE version.

Unknown commented 1 year ago

You need to be careful, Gitlab has 3 editions, OSS edition (almost nobody uses this because of Gitlabs marketing techniques), CE which has all the same features as OSS edition but packaged and distributed with a proprietary licence, and then you got EE edition.

CE is designed to be easily activated to become EE, while OSS is hard locked as CE.


Robin Shen changed state to 'Closed' 1 year ago
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Matthias Gramberg commented 1 year ago

I do agree with your plans to make an Enterprise edition, and I think it's a good income source.

I also like that you target Enterprise people with Enterprise features.

Although, in order to spark the interest of enterprise people at all, I think it is possible to acchieve that with a hosted version.

I do know several platforms, like https://radixproject.org/ and some others, who help you hosting. (Oracle Free Tier also comes to my mind)

Robin Shen commented 1 year ago

@shalokshalom thanks for the idea. Will definitely check that.

Matthias Gramberg commented 1 year ago

I would help you with that

Unknown commented 1 year ago

I thought Robin did not want to have SAAS solutions for onedev, and yet now it sounds like he does.

I am a little bit confused at this point, I thought the idea of community instances would be a good middleground but obviously not.

Onedev is going down the same path as gitlab went down, and will probably run into the same issues. The issue is gitlab is backed by a lot of money, onedev is not, you cant compete with gitlab, it wont work!


Robin Shen commented 1 year ago

@polarian I still do not have plan to offer SaaS service like GitLab does, where all users run on same instance, and manage data for customer.

The plan is still self-hosted. User may uses their own machine, or cloud instances, or some other instances offered like @shalokshalom suggests. I have not checked that yet.

bufferUnderrun commented 1 year ago

@polarian

I am a little bit confused at this point, I thought the idea of community instances would be a good middleground but obviously not.

Don't mix the help you offer once (public community SaaS on your server) with SaaS enterprise grade that deserve a high quality project as OneDev. That's a completely different market.

Onedev is going down the same path as gitlab went down, and will probably run into the same issues.

A such comment is based on which fact ?

Do you understand the real background and the feeling of :

  • hardworking freely on opensource project
  • writing high quality software
  • finaly wanted to earn money with, just to be able to continue... cause life's expensive and bill have to be paid.

Maybe helping Robin to reach is goal is a fair payback for using the product he built since time. ??

Robin Shen commented 1 year ago

@bufferunderrun thanks for the understanding. I am currently working on 8.0 which is fully driven by user feedbacks to polish existing features, instead of piling lots of new features. I hope this makes some difference from GitLab.

Matthias Gramberg commented 1 year ago

And you are doing a very good job ??

bufferUnderrun commented 1 year ago

OneDev is already doing difference from GitLab.

The next challenge you have to brave is as salesman/community manager :

You build an incredible product as a result of all your developper skills. But now, you need to sell it.

Some things are missing :

  • a better site presentation showcase. All products have one and as a customer, it's the first thing i'm looking for (proper screenshots and description, examples, pricing, competitors comparisons, customers feedbacks...).
  • publishing, writing about OneDev in all communities, medias, news (hackernews...) to reach as many users as possible.
Unknown commented 1 year ago

@bufferunderrun I think you need to be a little more considerate for the others around you. You have just accused me of being inconsiderate of the time Robin has put into onedev, and made it sound like my only goal here is to have a free solution.

Let me highlight a few things, I have wrote quite a lot of documentation for Onedev, and will continue to do so, I have spoken to Robin extensively about things, this is more of a downside but still :P

I am a co-maintainer of the Onedev AUR package (even if Robin objects to it still :P, but hey at least it works now). And I also provide a public onedev instance for anyone to use for production code, and surprisingly a few people have begun to use it, see the polarrepo child projects if you want proof.

My point was not to undermine Robin's work here, my point was is that it feels onedev is leaning more and more over to gitlab path, and that path is not a good path to go down. In no way did I undermine his work!

I would like to point out, onedev has struck itself in with the open source community, forking it into a EE which is proprietary is not terrible, other open source software does it too, but it gets bad when you go full gitlab style where they do not bother even maintaining the open source edition anymore, all features are added to the proprietary community edition (yes, there is actually 3 editions, OSS, community edition (built from OSS, with proprietary free add-ons) and then the EE).

It does not matter how much Robin tries to sell onedev, if the community is not behind it, then it will die. My comment was a warning, not to undermine his work but to prevent it from falling down a sinkhole.

Also remember, nothing stops you from forcing companies to pay for a license even for the non EE edition, its a good way to get them proprietary companies to give back by preventing the use of onedev for commercial purposes without a license, just an idea to get back at them rich companies :P

Unknown commented 1 year ago

Oh yeah, I forgot my point @bufferunderrun Robin does not need defending, and secondly this is not the first time you have attacked me, please stop!

Unknown commented 1 year ago

Also you got to be very careful, gitea, a more suitable competitor for onedev, recently lost a massive amount of its userbase for making a single change, it was moved from a community project maintained by a few developers over to a Limited Liability Company without even informing the userbase.

Be very careful with any changes, something as little as change in licence or ownership could kill onedev!

Robin Shen commented 1 year ago

Thanks for all your help. Let's focus on feature discussion.

Matthias Gramberg commented 1 year ago

Just as much as Gitea lost by making a totally different decision than to what we are suggesting here - creating a company vs providing a public instance - did Gitea win A LOT of new users by Codeberg.

I know the project since its Inception, and it never took of.

Nor did Gogs, Gitbucket or Phabricator.

What takes of, is the Gitea instance of Codeberg - yeah, its technically a soft fork - and Gitlab.

Those two provide public instances, and those two are by far the most known, most used and most contributed to.

Robin Shen commented 1 year ago

As far as I know, most Gitea contributors are still with it, and most of its users do not care too much according to this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/comments/10uqkg3/gitea_forgejo_or_onedev/

I do not want to offer saas for now mainly for two reasons:

  1. Customer will not trust small saas, especially for code hosting, which is the core property
  2. It is resource intensive, both financially and technically. You need to consider backup, disaster recovery, service level, ...

On the other hand, there does exist a market of self-hosting. Some users just do not want to hand off their code to any cloud hosting. At 2020, GitLab's public listing documenation shows that 80% of their income comes from self-hosted users. I even feel that their SaaS becomes their burden more or less, seeing their frequent limitations to public free tier users...

bufferUnderrun commented 1 year ago

I'm not a big fan of Github but when it's about Git/CI/CD on SAAS, it's the de facto standard.

OneDev strength is its ability and ease to be on promise (private hosting). One of the primary reason why i use it : my code, my data, my host.

Marcos de Oliveira commented 1 year ago

Onedev has caught off to most Gitea features I use, and has even a big advantage when it comes to searching. The only feature I'm missing that Gitea has is package registries (I wish it comes to open source edition, not EE ??). What I'm bothered tho is with the lack of tests. I've seem some things break in Onedev, like user deletion, which should have been caught by a test. Now, I know that it is a lot of work for a single person, write all the code, tests, documentation and still provide support. Sadly I do not have the skill (Java) nor time to contribute tests. I just can hope that Onedev attracts more and more users and contributors.

Robin Shen commented 1 year ago

Package management will certainly come into OS version.

Matthias Gramberg commented 1 year ago

Robin, how do you mean?

Package management for OneDev?
What OS version?

Can you elaborate, please ??

Marcos de Oliveira commented 1 year ago

Robin, how do you mean?

Package management for OneDev? What OS version?

Make OneDev act as package registry: issue #7, issue #10 (There was one for maven also, but could not find it). Like Gitea's: https://docs.gitea.io/en-us/packages/overview/

bufferUnderrun commented 1 year ago

issue #85 is also something i'm really waiting.

I want to centralize all related documents (PDF, pictures, data, dump...) of a project inside OneDev.

Actually, i have to maintain a separated share folder for this, and such a pain.

Unknown commented 1 year ago

Just use git-lfs and commit them with the repository, simple.


Marcos de Oliveira commented 1 year ago

Well, you could use a repository and Git LFS for this. Like, setup Git LFS in its own repository, or in a folder of a project, then setup a build job to publish a site...

bufferUnderrun commented 1 year ago

I consider theses files as documents related to the project but not as code and so not versioning.

Example : Guide, Documentation, Excel, whatever that is not source code...

Theses files are used by all users (support, project manager...) which handle the project and not only developers. With a proper role security. A sort of a ultra-light ECM (Entreprise Content System).

As an example, Redmine has a such section documents and/or files.

It's extremly usefull as all documents are centralized in one area, it allows :

  • better management
  • better security and access role
  • better and central backup
Marcos de Oliveira commented 1 year ago

Well, Git LFS do not keep blobs of every version. So, current OneDev "~site" can be used for that. Plus, you can automate it and publish files with a git push... Currently, only people with some access to the project can see the site, but after 8.0, anyone would be able to access it (so, no access control). Maybe @robin could add a "Site Viewer" role for that :D

bufferUnderrun commented 1 year ago

No.

You misunderstand what the problem is : this not a technical issue but usability/ease of use one.

As i said, OneDev is not only for git hosting purpose but also :

  • tracking issue (developer, support, customer)
  • support helpdesk (via issue, mail...)
  • devops (deployment job, container...)
  • management (time tracking via custom field waiting issue #57)

This tool is not for one people but an entire IT department.

Each job (developer, support, manager) is different, so access role, or way to get/send data. They have one thing in common : the central software to manage their project.

Robin plans to release Community/Enterprise version. issue #85 and issue #57 definitively take place for the later.

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